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Should the Toronto police be defunded? That's the issue our two contributors explore in this week’s episode. Alonzo Abbey is a defence lawyer whose clients are often young Black men who have experienced racist encounters with the police. Angie Hocking is the Outreach Director at Church of the Redeemer church in downtown Toronto, where she deals with homeless people and those with mental health crises.  Together, their perspectives shed light on what’s wrong with policing now, and how defunding could be positive for the police as well as the community.